jamii

قبل 3 أشهرdiscuss

> It seems like either one evaluates the contents of the `box`, and would only make a difference if you tried to use `x` afterwards?

More or less. x^ moves the whole box whereas x* copies the contents of the box.

> Awkwardly, it also hasn't been assigned so I'm not sure the box is accessible anymore?

Yes, if you move something and don't assign it then it gets dropped, same as rust.

jamii

قبل 3 أشهرdiscuss

> The goal is that most of your code can have the assurances of static typing, but you can still opt in to dynamically-typed glue code to handle repls, live code reloading, runtime code generation, malleable software etc.

jamii

قبل 7 أشهرdiscuss

Wasm-mvp is very simple, especially if you drop the floating point instructions. But WAMR supports a lot of extensions - https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasm-micro-runtime?tab=r.... There is a garbage collector, jit, WASI, threads, debugger support etc.

jamii

قبل 10 أشهرdiscuss

My bad :)

jamii

قبل 10 أشهرdiscuss

EDIT I totally missed the context

jamii

قبل 10 أشهرdiscuss

I've tried using binaryen, and I've also tried emitting raw wasm by hand, and the latter was far easier. It only took ~200 lines of wasm-specific code.

jamii

قبل 11 شهرًاdiscuss

Yeah, json is annoying because of the limited types, but postgres arrays/rows are annoying because of the lack of sum/union types (if your UI has a heterogenous list of elements).

The OLAP world has much nicer type systems eg https://duckdb.org/docs/stable/sql/data_types/union.html.

jamii

قبل 11 شهرًاdiscuss

One of the dynamics is that people get older so they move into different buckets.

We can make the model way simpler to make it clearer. Say in 2020 we hired 1000 20-24yo, 1000 25-29yo etc and then we didn't hire anyone since then. That was five years ago, so now we have 0 20-24yo, 1000 25-29yo, 1000 30-34yo etc and 1000 retirees who don't show up in the graph.

Each individual year we hired the exact same number of people in each age bracket, and yet we still end up with fewer young people total whenever hiring goes down, because all the people that got hired during the big hiring spike are now older.

jamii

قبل 11 شهرًاdiscuss

I made a stupid simple model where hiring in all age brackets rose slowly until 2021 and then fell slowly. That produces very similar looking graphs, because the many engineers that were hired at the peak move up the demographic curve over time. Normalizing the graph to 2022 levels, as the paper seems to do, hides the fact that the actual hiring ratios didn't change at all.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z0l0rNebCTVWLk77_7HA...

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

The ... is the useful part. We actually want that string, so we can't avoid allocating it.

But the &str at the end is an additional heap allocation and causes an additional pointer hop when using the string. The only reason the function returns a pointer to a string in the first place is so that the nil check at the beginning can return nil. The calling code always checks if the result is nil and then immediately dereferences the string pointer. A better interface would be to panic if the argument is nil, or if that's too scary then:

    func (thing *Thing) String() (string, bool) {
        if thing == nil {
            return "", false
        }
        str := ...
        return str, true
    }

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

I'm curious if any languages other than swift do this.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

I don't think Austral uses second-class references. Even the page you linked says:

> But is it worth it? Again, the tradeoff is expressivity vs. simplicity... Austral’s linear types and borrowing is already so simple. Austral’s equivalent of a borrow checker is ~700 lines of OCaml. The only downside of Austral is right now you have to write the lifetimes of the references you pass to functions, but I will probably implement lifetime (region) elision.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

> it solves the actual problem perfectly

The whole post was about how that doesn't solve the problem perfectly - there is no way to interactively edit the output.

> by embracing LISP principles directly

This could just as easily have been javascript+json or erlang+bert. There's no lisp magic. The core idea in the post was just finding a way for code to edit it's own constants so that I don't need a separate datastore.

Eventually I couldn't get this working the way I wanted with clojure and I had to write a simple language from scratch to embed provenance in values - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43303314.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

This is an old prototype. I ended up making a language for it from scratch so that I could attach provenance metadata to values, making them directly editable even when far removed from their original source.

https://www.scattered-thoughts.net/log/0027#preimp

https://x.com/sc13ts/status/1564759255198351360/video/1

I never wrote up most of that work. I still like the ideas though.

Also if I had ever finished editing this I wouldn't have buried the lede quite so much.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

Worth mentioning that all the talks are published at https://www.hytradboi.com/2025/#program.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

Worth mentioning that all the talks are published at https://www.hytradboi.com/2025/#program.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

Here's the program (https://www.hytradboi.com/2025/#program):

0900-1000: Compilers

  "Database query compilation: our journey" by Thomas Neumann & Viktor Leis

  "A YJIT interview" by Maxime Chevalier-Boisvert

  "A quick ramp-up on ramping up quickly" by Iain Ireland

  "Can we democratize JIT compilers?" by Haoran Xu

  "Safe and productive performance with user-schedulable languages" by Jonathan Ragan-Kelley

1000-1100: Understanding programs

  "How debuggers work" by Sy Brand

  "Debugging compiler-optimized code: how it works and doesn't" by Stephen Kell

  "Side-Eye: ask your programs anything" by Andrei Matei

  "Let's run a million benchmarks" by Yao Yue

  "Rocket science of simulation testing!" by Alex / matklad

1100-1200: Wild ideas

  "Back to modularity" by Daniel Jackson

  "DB usability: as if" by Jonathan Edwards

  "Twizzler and far out memory sharing: precise abstractions" by Daniel Bittman

  "Programming without pointers" by Andrew Kelley

  "Throwing it all away - how extreme rewriting changed the way I build databases" by Tyler Neely

1200-1230: Programmers are people

  "A case for feminism in programming language design" by Felienne Hermans

  "Malloy, mic drop, peace!" by Michael Toy

1230-1300: Lightning talk buffet

  "Learning about the odd bits of SQL by reading the PostgreSQL docs" by Chris Zetter

  "Hacking Observable notebooks from within" by Tom Larkworthy

  "Zero copy data structures" by Evan Chan

  "Reliable serverless needs distributed transactions" by Stu Hood

  "Pangeo is a database" by Alexander Merose

  "Rubbing a database on a language server" by Philip Zeyliger

  "Language agnostic simulation testing on a budget" by Stevan A

  "Shapeshifter: using LLMs inside a database for schema flexibility" by David Nachman

  "Why S3's conditional writes made people excited" by Miikka Koskinen

  "pghttp: backend-free, lowest latency web apps" by Damir Simunic

1300-1400: Query languages

  "Pipe syntax in SQL; it's time" by Jeff Shute

  "PRQL: a modern, pipelined SQL replacement" by Tobias Brandt

  "AquaLang - a streaming dataflow programming language" by Klas Segeljakt

  "A polymorphic data model for SQL using algebraic types" by Steve McCanne

1400-1430: Databases

  "Use of time in distributed databases - don't fall behind the times" by Murat Demirbas

  "Enough with all the Raft" by Alex Miller

  "Database ideas in Convex" by Thomas Ballinger

  "Serverless primitives for the shared log architecture" by Stephen Balogh

  "Good thing we're not writing a database" by Peter van Hardenberg

1430-1500: Wasm

  "Thinking in Wit" by Dan Gohman

  "Bringing the WebAssembly standard up to speed with SpecTec" by Dongjun Youn

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

> it looks extremely suspicious

It matches my anecdotal experiences with graal. It's a huge complex machine with a lot of surface area for weird performance bugs.

> TruffleRuby beats cruby on the same benchmark by 4.38x

That benchmark only looks at peak performance, which TR unarguably dominates at, and ignores other important considerations like warmup time. Here's another railsbench (https://i.imgur.com/IzMRKdQ.png) from the same paper (https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3617651.3622982). TR achieves the best peak performance, but only after 3 minutes of warmup and it starts out 17x slower than cruby. If every time you deploy new code your latency spikes by 17x for 3 minutes, that's gonna be painful.

I don't know of anyone that is using TR in production. Shopify were doing some work on it for a while, but they've since developed and shipped yjit so I don't know if they still have any investment in TR.

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

The tradeoff in SingleStore is interesting. By default and unlike eg postgres, parameterized queries are planned ignoring the values of the parameters. This allows caching the compiled query but prevents adapting the query plan - for the example in the post SingleStore would pick one plan for both queries.

But you can opt out of this behaviour by wrapping each parameter in NOPARAM (https://docs.singlestore.com/cloud/reference/sql-reference/c...).

jamii

السنة الماضيةdiscuss

If I have multiple errors then that in-out parameter has to be a union(enum). And then I'm back to creating dozens of slightly different unions for functions which return slightly different sets of errors. Which is the same problem I have in rust. All of the nice inference that zig does doesn't apply to my in-out parameter either. And the compiler won't check that every path that returns error.Foo always initializes error_info.Foo.

Submissions

Artificial Adventures

I'm Not a Cat

Borrow-checking without type-checking

Borrow-Checking Surprises

Do We Understand SQL?

Store Tags After Payloads

HYTRADBOI 2025 post-mortem

"Enough with All the Raft" by Alex Miller

A quick ramp-up on ramping up quickly in SpiderMonkey

Programming Without Pointers

Show HN: Hytradboi DB/PL conference starts tomorrow

[untitled]

Other Kinds of Talks

Other Kinds of Talks

A survey of OLAP and HTAP query engines

Relational Algebra Isn't Math

Query optimization doesn't work because SQL is declarative

Reading every paper in 27 years of the psychology in programming conference

The missing tier for query compilers

Hytradboi 2025 Program

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