Corporate dev job or startup tech support?
9 comments
Take the corporate job. The upside when you decide to move on from the corporate job will be so much greater. You might have fun but at the end of the day you will be known as a tech support guy with a company that is barely recognized by anyone.
With the corporate job, you'll have the tile software engineer and you get as good as you want. Once you move on you'll have a lot more jobs to move on to.
It's a sad reality that if you stay small company for a lot of your early career you tend to stay small company for the rest. That's a generalization but it's not far from the truth.
With the corporate job, lets say you are talking about IBM Global Services or Accenture, you'll have the opportunity to apply to interesting roles across Fortune 1000 and Fortune 500 companies without them blinking since you come from a known and reputable place. If you want to go work small company after that, then no harm done, you still can.
With the corporate job, you'll have the tile software engineer and you get as good as you want. Once you move on you'll have a lot more jobs to move on to.
It's a sad reality that if you stay small company for a lot of your early career you tend to stay small company for the rest. That's a generalization but it's not far from the truth.
With the corporate job, lets say you are talking about IBM Global Services or Accenture, you'll have the opportunity to apply to interesting roles across Fortune 1000 and Fortune 500 companies without them blinking since you come from a known and reputable place. If you want to go work small company after that, then no harm done, you still can.
... he also gave me some of the best advice I've ever received. Trying to decide whether to major in psychology or art history, I had gone to his office to see what he thought. He squinted and lowered his head. "Is this a hard choice for you?" he demanded. Yes! I cried. "Oh," he said, springing back cheerfully. "In that case, it doesn't matter. If it's a hard decision, then there's always lots to be said on both sides, so either choice is likely to be good on its way. Hard choices are always unimportant."
Adam Gopnik about Albert Bregman, professor at McGill University, on http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/01/28/130128fa_fact_...
Adam Gopnik about Albert Bregman, professor at McGill University, on http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/01/28/130128fa_fact_...
This is terrible advice in this instant.
If you want to be a software developer, taking a job as tech support is a bad career move. Our industry will type cast you as a tech support guy and you will be fighting an uphill battle for your first programming job.
Better to take the programming gig for a few years, then go try to find a great startup to work for....especially if you want to be a developer.
If you want to be a software developer, taking a job as tech support is a bad career move. Our industry will type cast you as a tech support guy and you will be fighting an uphill battle for your first programming job.
Better to take the programming gig for a few years, then go try to find a great startup to work for....especially if you want to be a developer.
I faced one issue with choosing between the two. Startups won't hire junior level people or people without extensive knowledge about the technologies they are using. With most startups they all have very different "stacks" so it is hard to catch up on the all technologies. Startups are trying to get a product up and running quickly for investors or create more value to get more customers. I interviewed at startups that I would love to have worked at and showed knowhow but was never sent an offer. I now work at a huge company with way more flexibility in the projects and time constraints. I love bigger companies as a software engineer for the learning experiences. Needless to say take risks when you are young and have nothing to lose (paraphrasing Steve Jobs).
P.S. I worked at a consultant software firm and it was the worst. I pretty much worked by myself going to clients then coming back. No team atmosphere to spread knowledge and challenges with.
P.S. I worked at a consultant software firm and it was the worst. I pretty much worked by myself going to clients then coming back. No team atmosphere to spread knowledge and challenges with.
+1 to your comment. I'm facing some of the same issues looking for a startup job. I have 2 years of professional experience with Python, and have concentrated on Python jobs, but haven't yet gotten better than a generically warm response, except once when I was brought in for a week-long "audition." (And, in that case, I feel that I just barely missed the mark and they were able to find someone just slightly more suitable to their requirements.)
Since then, I've started learning Django (as I feel that's probably the easiest route toward getting a job), and made some progress, but the state of Django tutorials being what it is, I'm starting to hit a wall with it. To that end, I've registered ReadySetDjango.com (no content there yet, so no need to bother visiting) and am working on changing that situation.
And I wonder if the situation is significantly different with larger startups, of, say 100-ish employees. At that level, it seems like they can afford to hire for demonstrated ability in related areas rather than expecting one to be able to ramp up in 2 days.
Anyone who has some advice or input on my situation, I welcome you to email me (contact info in profile). I'm wondering if the results I'm getting are because I'm just not what they want and I'm wasting my breath, or if I'm not presenting myself correctly.
PS I live in the Bay Area and would love to meet up with any of you who are also.
Since then, I've started learning Django (as I feel that's probably the easiest route toward getting a job), and made some progress, but the state of Django tutorials being what it is, I'm starting to hit a wall with it. To that end, I've registered ReadySetDjango.com (no content there yet, so no need to bother visiting) and am working on changing that situation.
And I wonder if the situation is significantly different with larger startups, of, say 100-ish employees. At that level, it seems like they can afford to hire for demonstrated ability in related areas rather than expecting one to be able to ramp up in 2 days.
Anyone who has some advice or input on my situation, I welcome you to email me (contact info in profile). I'm wondering if the results I'm getting are because I'm just not what they want and I'm wasting my breath, or if I'm not presenting myself correctly.
PS I live in the Bay Area and would love to meet up with any of you who are also.
I just learn Python/Django for a side project over the last couple months and launching tonight. I like it way more than rails, that's for sure.
If you went to a big university try Google, Facebook, etc. They don't care what you code in, they just want to see if you understand programming fundamentals and problem solving capabilities. The bay area is flooded with Junior and Entry level developers so it is hard to land a spot. You have to go to networking places. The best way to find a job is by meeting someone who is hiring.
come listen to Jeff Atwood speak (created Stackoverflow.com) https://www.eventbrite.com/e/jeff-atwood-founder-of-stack-ov...
If you went to a big university try Google, Facebook, etc. They don't care what you code in, they just want to see if you understand programming fundamentals and problem solving capabilities. The bay area is flooded with Junior and Entry level developers so it is hard to land a spot. You have to go to networking places. The best way to find a job is by meeting someone who is hiring.
come listen to Jeff Atwood speak (created Stackoverflow.com) https://www.eventbrite.com/e/jeff-atwood-founder-of-stack-ov...
Unfortunately, I went to Small No Name College for undergrad, Large But Not Terribly Well Known University for grad school, and didn't major in CS or Software Engineering either time. So, yeah, I'm showing up to many, many networking events these days. :P In fact, I'm writing this from the Bay Area Python meetup where Guido is speaking.
I went to a no name community college and learned everything pretty much outside of school. I have found it not to be such a problem. People are more interested in what you have created or what you are capable of building.
The jobs are in Rails because the momentum is there.
If you really want a dev job at a junior level working at a startup, maybe you should try switching your stack and including Rails.
Fortunately, they have a decent and welcoming community, so landing a gig won't be as hard as with Django (where most job posts require: Senior Developer with 5+ years exp.)
If you really want a dev job at a junior level working at a startup, maybe you should try switching your stack and including Rails.
Fortunately, they have a decent and welcoming community, so landing a gig won't be as hard as with Django (where most job posts require: Senior Developer with 5+ years exp.)
dude, listen up, I had a similar situation and went with the small startup. BAD MOVE. you're going to be expendable. Doing some time at megacorp-x yet learning production level java does not sound like a bad move (my alternative was not as cool)
Unless you really need the money, it's always best to find the position where you will grow more. What skills will you pick up at the consulting firm? What skills will you pick up at the startup?
It depends on where I saw my career going. Was I more interested in learning java or going the product route.
It's also obviously a question of culture. Which would you thrive in?
Me personally? I'm not sure what you mean by product support, but if you mean something like help desk/tech support for a product they make then I can't go that route. I've done it before and I was absolutely miserable.
Between the two choices you gave I'd have to choose the corporate firm and learn java even though I'd probably be more interested at the startup in a different position.
It's also obviously a question of culture. Which would you thrive in?
Me personally? I'm not sure what you mean by product support, but if you mean something like help desk/tech support for a product they make then I can't go that route. I've done it before and I was absolutely miserable.
Between the two choices you gave I'd have to choose the corporate firm and learn java even though I'd probably be more interested at the startup in a different position.
I absolutely despise working for large corps but this seems like a no brainer. They're paying to teach you to become a Software Engineer?
It's not like this is a life or death decision. If you don't enjoy the job down the road you can quit and go do tech support for thousands of other companies. Thousands of other companies will not hire you and teach you to become a Software Engineer. When I hire developers, unless they're interns, I hire them because they already are Software Engineers.
It's not like this is a life or death decision. If you don't enjoy the job down the road you can quit and go do tech support for thousands of other companies. Thousands of other companies will not hire you and teach you to become a Software Engineer. When I hire developers, unless they're interns, I hire them because they already are Software Engineers.
Become a software engineer.
Would you personally rather take a job at a giant corporate consulting firm where you get trained to program in Java and become a software engineer, or take a much lower paying position at a mature startup (over 300 employees) with awesome culture doing product tech support with a possibility of growing with the company?