Ask HN: Has anyone hacked seduction?
6 comments
Stop trying to 'hack' it - people you meet can tell if you're just trying to get sex rather than having any interest in them personally. People are not APIs. Someone trying to manipulate another person into sex is just as annoying as someone trying to get money out of you on the street.
Just hang out with women on the basis of them being people and when you meet someone interesting express your feelings simply and spontaneously eg 'I like you.' don't look for anything in particular in return. If the person it attracted to you then matters will take care of themselves.
Forget about the PUA thing. If you're that desperate to get laid, then just hire a hooker. But if you want to have any kind of relationship, then there's no point in trying to force it. The confidence you're talking about above is not confidence that you can get laid at the drop of a hat, but the confidence to go about and do things without obsessing over the question of whether you're going to get laid on any given night.
Just hang out with women on the basis of them being people and when you meet someone interesting express your feelings simply and spontaneously eg 'I like you.' don't look for anything in particular in return. If the person it attracted to you then matters will take care of themselves.
Forget about the PUA thing. If you're that desperate to get laid, then just hire a hooker. But if you want to have any kind of relationship, then there's no point in trying to force it. The confidence you're talking about above is not confidence that you can get laid at the drop of a hat, but the confidence to go about and do things without obsessing over the question of whether you're going to get laid on any given night.
I think you may have come to the wrong forum but I'll try to give you a hand anyway.
To answer your question about "Has anyone hacked seduction?", I'd suggest that the PUA authors you've read would suggest that they have, but it doesn't seem to be working for you. I suspect that much of that stuff is just tricks and games to try and get you laid, and the problem (I suspect) is that any smart-enough woman would (hopefully) see right thought it.
From what you've written, I'd suggest that it isn't your looks, or that you are boring. I'd suggest that it is exactly as you suggest yourself, you're not confident.
I think your therapist is wrong about becoming confident when you reach your goals (somebody please help me out here). Look around, see how many over-confident douche-bags have no goals, or haven't done anything meaningful, yet that doesn't stop them from being confident, does it?
I think what you're therapist is trying to say isn't that you won't feel sexually confident until you get laid, but rather you need to be comfortable with who you are, and then you'll find the confidence in being you. It may be a subtle difference, but confidence doesn't come from ruling the world, it comes from accepting and appreciating who you are.
I like to think of a Buddhist Monk. Do they seem confident to you? What do you think gives them that confidence?
To answer your question about "Has anyone hacked seduction?", I'd suggest that the PUA authors you've read would suggest that they have, but it doesn't seem to be working for you. I suspect that much of that stuff is just tricks and games to try and get you laid, and the problem (I suspect) is that any smart-enough woman would (hopefully) see right thought it.
From what you've written, I'd suggest that it isn't your looks, or that you are boring. I'd suggest that it is exactly as you suggest yourself, you're not confident.
I think your therapist is wrong about becoming confident when you reach your goals (somebody please help me out here). Look around, see how many over-confident douche-bags have no goals, or haven't done anything meaningful, yet that doesn't stop them from being confident, does it?
I think what you're therapist is trying to say isn't that you won't feel sexually confident until you get laid, but rather you need to be comfortable with who you are, and then you'll find the confidence in being you. It may be a subtle difference, but confidence doesn't come from ruling the world, it comes from accepting and appreciating who you are.
I like to think of a Buddhist Monk. Do they seem confident to you? What do you think gives them that confidence?
How can you tell I lack confidence? Everytime I think I'm being stoic in my writing, my lack of self esteem somehow shines through.
> How can you tell I lack confidence?
A self-confident person would never have asked that question.
> Everytime I think I'm being stoic in my writing...
But a true stoic would say, "Women don't see my value. That's their loss, not mine."
A self-confident person would never have asked that question.
> Everytime I think I'm being stoic in my writing...
But a true stoic would say, "Women don't see my value. That's their loss, not mine."
> On the other hand, my therapist tells me ...
Ah, now I understand. You had self-esteem issues arising from allowing yourself to be defined by random women's tastes, and you now have the additional burden of allowing yourself to be defined by the random tastes of a therapist.
Let me tell you something. You will become self-confident when you decide to define yourself -- and not before.
You're going through something that many, many people have gone through -- trying to secure validation from other people. One day you will wake up and realize that securing validation from others is like securing happiness by shopping.
By a process of natural selection, nature has made you the way you are. There has never been anyone like you, and there never will be again. Your purpose is to live your life as yourself, not as some imaginary person defined by others.
Evolution works. Natural selection works -- but only if people don't all try to be copies of the same "ideal" person.
> I just can't seem to hack this whole sex thing.
What's to hack? The "whole sex thing" gives too much power to other people. Marketers and commercial interests want you to believe they can sell you success, and therapists are in the same line of work. It's just a big scam -- the trick is to figure that out before you die of old age, still trying to catch the brass ring.
And guess what? If you stop trying so hard, if you come to realize the "whole sex thing" is completely ridiculous and stop giving it any energy, women will suddenly and inexplicably flock to you like moths to a candle.
I know this from personal experience.
Ah, now I understand. You had self-esteem issues arising from allowing yourself to be defined by random women's tastes, and you now have the additional burden of allowing yourself to be defined by the random tastes of a therapist.
Let me tell you something. You will become self-confident when you decide to define yourself -- and not before.
You're going through something that many, many people have gone through -- trying to secure validation from other people. One day you will wake up and realize that securing validation from others is like securing happiness by shopping.
By a process of natural selection, nature has made you the way you are. There has never been anyone like you, and there never will be again. Your purpose is to live your life as yourself, not as some imaginary person defined by others.
Evolution works. Natural selection works -- but only if people don't all try to be copies of the same "ideal" person.
> I just can't seem to hack this whole sex thing.
What's to hack? The "whole sex thing" gives too much power to other people. Marketers and commercial interests want you to believe they can sell you success, and therapists are in the same line of work. It's just a big scam -- the trick is to figure that out before you die of old age, still trying to catch the brass ring.
And guess what? If you stop trying so hard, if you come to realize the "whole sex thing" is completely ridiculous and stop giving it any energy, women will suddenly and inexplicably flock to you like moths to a candle.
I know this from personal experience.
I phrased everything wrong. I don't want to "hack" anything important in life. On the contrary, I want to set things properly in my life. I want sustainable growth. So pardon me for using the term. It wasn't fitting.
I've met people who've backwards rationalized not having success with women, and the way you can tell that I'm low on self-confidence, I can tell they're full of shit. But I don't think you are, I think you have a point, as do most people posting comments here.Also, because I have seen this "figure" of what a life without this burning desire for sexual validation is like, and it seems legitimately healthy. I've heard of the "cherry on top" expression, and it seems so ideal for love and sex to be the extra bonus that we all welcome and cherish. Unfortunately, I see myself going full-circle with this philosophy and winding up anxious and unhappy. How do I NOT place importance on sex and love? It's essentially what I think of when I wake up, everytime I see a beautiful woman, and at night as I fall asleep. I'm not a romantic, but the idea of it all is just so awesome.
edit: i think i'm getting it.
I've met people who've backwards rationalized not having success with women, and the way you can tell that I'm low on self-confidence, I can tell they're full of shit. But I don't think you are, I think you have a point, as do most people posting comments here.Also, because I have seen this "figure" of what a life without this burning desire for sexual validation is like, and it seems legitimately healthy. I've heard of the "cherry on top" expression, and it seems so ideal for love and sex to be the extra bonus that we all welcome and cherish. Unfortunately, I see myself going full-circle with this philosophy and winding up anxious and unhappy. How do I NOT place importance on sex and love? It's essentially what I think of when I wake up, everytime I see a beautiful woman, and at night as I fall asleep. I'm not a romantic, but the idea of it all is just so awesome.
edit: i think i'm getting it.
> How do I NOT place importance on sex and love?
Yep, I see where you're coming from. And if it weren't for that outlook, chances are the entire human race would die out in a matter of centuries, because people would say, "Jesus, what's the point of this? Who actually enjoys all this forehead-beating?" But hardly anyone does that. They get bred out of the population. By natural selection.
Yep, I see where you're coming from. And if it weren't for that outlook, chances are the entire human race would die out in a matter of centuries, because people would say, "Jesus, what's the point of this? Who actually enjoys all this forehead-beating?" But hardly anyone does that. They get bred out of the population. By natural selection.
I'm not sure what this all boils down to. What does this mean for how I interact in public?
If I still decide to talk to the beautiful women I encounter, that means I'm placing importance on sex, right? Because otherwise, I'd be staring at my work and not really giving a hoot. Or are we saying there's a fine line between pursuing women and obsessing over the idea of love and sex as a determinant factor of one's self-esteem?
If I still decide to talk to the beautiful women I encounter, that means I'm placing importance on sex, right? Because otherwise, I'd be staring at my work and not really giving a hoot. Or are we saying there's a fine line between pursuing women and obsessing over the idea of love and sex as a determinant factor of one's self-esteem?
I've found that the key to success in this is context and setting.
Rather than going somewhere because there are women there, go somewhere you would like to go regardless and don't worry about approaching anyone, just relax and have a good time. Everything is dependent on mindset and setting. You, the same exact person might be anxious and uncomfortable in a loud club, and at the same time you might be the most confident guy in the room at a cocktail party after a business conference...or vice versa. So go to places that play to your strengths.
i.e coffee shops are a terrible place to meet people. There's absolutely zero sexual energy and everyone there is just trying to get some work done.
If you're in the bay area, email me(email in my profile) and I'll show you exactly what I mean.
Rather than going somewhere because there are women there, go somewhere you would like to go regardless and don't worry about approaching anyone, just relax and have a good time. Everything is dependent on mindset and setting. You, the same exact person might be anxious and uncomfortable in a loud club, and at the same time you might be the most confident guy in the room at a cocktail party after a business conference...or vice versa. So go to places that play to your strengths.
i.e coffee shops are a terrible place to meet people. There's absolutely zero sexual energy and everyone there is just trying to get some work done.
If you're in the bay area, email me(email in my profile) and I'll show you exactly what I mean.
from personal experience.
if you want to pick up girls, go work behind a bar, preferably a cocktail bar. You will learn a lifetime of how to flirt and get girls. If you already have a job, just do it saturday night. don't worry how much you get paid, just do a good job and smile a lot, you will meet huge numbers of girls and some will flirt back.
if you want to pick up girls, go work behind a bar, preferably a cocktail bar. You will learn a lifetime of how to flirt and get girls. If you already have a job, just do it saturday night. don't worry how much you get paid, just do a good job and smile a lot, you will meet huge numbers of girls and some will flirt back.
All your answers are here:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/
On the other hand, my therapist tells me I'll only really become confident when I achieve my goals. She says there isn't much I can do in the way of feeling sexually confident until I get laid. All I can do is learn to feel better about who I am, eliminate the self-doubt, and that's basically it.
I'm writing this because I'm at a stalemate. Approaching women hasn't helped.Actually, my therapisttold me to stop talking to strange women in coffee shops because the constant failures are making me unhappy.
Not sure what to do here...
I've read the PUA-books, practiced, even went out alone a few times. I just can't seem to hack this whole sex thing. Women don't seem to get any spark from being around me. Is it looks? Am I boring?