Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call(maggrand.com)
maggrand.com
Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call
https://maggrand.com/new-york-ceo-fires-900-employees-on-zoom-call-video/
448 comments
To anybody affected by this layoff, my company Placement.com created a Better.com Alumni Job Board [0] to help smooth the transition. We've seen over and over how much easier it is to get a job at a company where:
1. You have a connection (or can build one easily)
2. The company recognizes the companies you previously worked for
Targeting companies that ex-colleagues work at is a powerful strategy! So we made this board for everybody affected. Also, if you are interested in talking to a career coach, I'm happy to give a free intro session to everybody affected here. Just email me sean@.
The lack of empathy shown in this situation is intense and I hope y'all know that there are amazing companies that will value you more waiting with open arms!
[0] https://www.placement.com/boards/bettercom-alumni-companies
1. You have a connection (or can build one easily)
2. The company recognizes the companies you previously worked for
Targeting companies that ex-colleagues work at is a powerful strategy! So we made this board for everybody affected. Also, if you are interested in talking to a career coach, I'm happy to give a free intro session to everybody affected here. Just email me sean@.
The lack of empathy shown in this situation is intense and I hope y'all know that there are amazing companies that will value you more waiting with open arms!
[0] https://www.placement.com/boards/bettercom-alumni-companies
I know it’s just an anecdote but as a customer I kind of believe this.
I just completed a transaction with them that had to be extended beyond the rate lock window. For about 10 days there was a daily back and forth where they asked me to provide some documentation. I would provide the requested documentation and about 12 hours later I would receive a task of uploading the same required documentation.
The document was a 50ish page legal document that required someone to look at it. It’s clear nobody was actually spending any effort on it. Even calling my loan officer wasn’t getting me anywhere. It wasn’t until the deadline approached that they called me and wanted to get it all sorted out and they extended my rate lock.
The way management handled this looks horrible but if there’s any truth to these employees essentially stealing wages from their employer then they’re lucky they’re just being fired and not being prosecuted.
I just completed a transaction with them that had to be extended beyond the rate lock window. For about 10 days there was a daily back and forth where they asked me to provide some documentation. I would provide the requested documentation and about 12 hours later I would receive a task of uploading the same required documentation.
The document was a 50ish page legal document that required someone to look at it. It’s clear nobody was actually spending any effort on it. Even calling my loan officer wasn’t getting me anywhere. It wasn’t until the deadline approached that they called me and wanted to get it all sorted out and they extended my rate lock.
The way management handled this looks horrible but if there’s any truth to these employees essentially stealing wages from their employer then they’re lucky they’re just being fired and not being prosecuted.
I would also like to point out that there is no actual proof that there was the type of employee shenanigans he talks about.
He also says
"The 43-year-old CEO said that the “market has changed” and that the company had to lose weight in order to remain agile enough to adapt to the evolving housing market, which appears to be cooling after a pandemic-boosted boom."
So maybe the 'people stealing time' comment is just an excuse so he doesn't feel bad about cutting so many people?
He also says
"The 43-year-old CEO said that the “market has changed” and that the company had to lose weight in order to remain agile enough to adapt to the evolving housing market, which appears to be cooling after a pandemic-boosted boom."
So maybe the 'people stealing time' comment is just an excuse so he doesn't feel bad about cutting so many people?
Comment's gone now, but a video was posted:
game_the0ry 5 minutes ago | prev | next [–]
Video -- https://youtu.be/M8RV8E01HO8
EDIT: After watching the video, somehow the vest makes it even more offensive. I don't know why, maybe someone smarter than me knows.
game_the0ry 5 minutes ago | prev | next [–]
Video -- https://youtu.be/M8RV8E01HO8
EDIT: After watching the video, somehow the vest makes it even more offensive. I don't know why, maybe someone smarter than me knows.
>>Garg told Fortune that a month earlier, the company began to review employee productivity data, including missed telephone call rates, number of inbound and outbound calls, employees showing up late to meetings with a customer, and other metrics.
>>“You guys know that at least 250 of the people terminated were working an average of 2 hours a day while clocking 8 hours+ a day in the payroll system? They were stealing from you and stealing from our customers who pay the bills that pay our bills. Get educated,” Garg told Fortune.
>>“You guys know that at least 250 of the people terminated were working an average of 2 hours a day while clocking 8 hours+ a day in the payroll system? They were stealing from you and stealing from our customers who pay the bills that pay our bills. Get educated,” Garg told Fortune.
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29437642
Copying my comment from there:
C suites tend to want to personalize messages by adding context to how they feel, but in cases of such severely negative news it's always going to come off badly. "Firing people hurts my feelings" is a moot point unless you've slashed your and the rest of leadership's paychecks.
I'm mixed on the method of putting a bunch of people in a meeting and the CEO telling them directly they're being laid off. In some ways, I think it's much better than slowly pulling employees in and letting them know 1:1. In those cases, word about the layoffs travel much quicker than the layoffs, and people will spend all day with dread about whether they are laid off or not.
Copying my comment from there:
C suites tend to want to personalize messages by adding context to how they feel, but in cases of such severely negative news it's always going to come off badly. "Firing people hurts my feelings" is a moot point unless you've slashed your and the rest of leadership's paychecks.
I'm mixed on the method of putting a bunch of people in a meeting and the CEO telling them directly they're being laid off. In some ways, I think it's much better than slowly pulling employees in and letting them know 1:1. In those cases, word about the layoffs travel much quicker than the layoffs, and people will spend all day with dread about whether they are laid off or not.
I find disgraceful that this guy is putting the blame on his employees.
It is clear that:
1. There is no way competent managers would let 15% of the workforce slip so hard, that they are fired for "performance reasons", and
2. If these performance measurements were valid, most of the now fired employees would have been fired long time ago.
Any normal company has quarterly performance reviews, and management has to follow on those. If he only just found out that 15% of his employees were "lazy" or were "stealing wages" (not a thing), but waited until the end of the year, he and his team were being negligent.
It is clear that:
1. There is no way competent managers would let 15% of the workforce slip so hard, that they are fired for "performance reasons", and
2. If these performance measurements were valid, most of the now fired employees would have been fired long time ago.
Any normal company has quarterly performance reviews, and management has to follow on those. If he only just found out that 15% of his employees were "lazy" or were "stealing wages" (not a thing), but waited until the end of the year, he and his team were being negligent.
People in this thread are acting like it has to be a 900 person meeting or 1:1 meetings.
Middle managers should be able to lay off their own reports in small group settings.
Even if this is impractical upper-middle managers should be able to lay off like-grouped employees in groups of ~10-15.
A mass lay-off is not an opportunity for the CEO to play the victim and talk about his feelings and how hard it was for him, when he did not take a paycut to keep a single of those employees on.
I'm 26 and I know this. Jesus.
Middle managers should be able to lay off their own reports in small group settings.
Even if this is impractical upper-middle managers should be able to lay off like-grouped employees in groups of ~10-15.
A mass lay-off is not an opportunity for the CEO to play the victim and talk about his feelings and how hard it was for him, when he did not take a paycut to keep a single of those employees on.
I'm 26 and I know this. Jesus.
Many folks here are talking about the CEO and how the termination process was carried out, but I'd like to know if this is any sort of indicator for where the housing market is going.
Zillow was just in the news for suddenly laying off about %25 of its employees and taking a ~$500m loss.
Do any of you believe these companies have insight into the near feature that indicates a notable downturn in the market?
Zillow was just in the news for suddenly laying off about %25 of its employees and taking a ~$500m loss.
Do any of you believe these companies have insight into the near feature that indicates a notable downturn in the market?
Could be worse. There were mass layoffs in one part of my company many years ago. About half the people were fired and the other half retained. HR mixed up the packets for each group. The not fired got the packets destined for the people being fired and vice versa. It was a disaster.
>‘You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”
Sounds like there's a problem at the top too.
Sounds like there's a problem at the top too.
It gets worse. He went on Blind afterwards to really make his voice heard: https://fortune.com/2021/12/03/better-com-ceo-attacks-laid-o...
Everyone keeps bringing up the $750MM that the company raised and juxtaposing that news with the layoffs. But I don't think people get that the money probably came with many strings including reducing costs (read people) as well as the CEO getting a new boss in the form of an additional board seat.
Regarding telling 900 employees they were fired over a zoom call...well you can't buy class I guess.
Regarding telling 900 employees they were fired over a zoom call...well you can't buy class I guess.
Don't really understand the outrage over this video. Sure, he could have been more eloquent and talked a bit less about how it affected him. Though, nothing he said or did in the video is worthy of this attention in my opinion.
Do people expect them to bring everyone in and fire them in-person? Even if it wasn't a pandemic, why would I want my time wasted like that? Just tell me I'm fired and email me any info about severance, insurance, etc.
It's also funny that this person finds it surprising given the company and the org within that company they were working. Refi loans are not a stable market.
Do people expect them to bring everyone in and fire them in-person? Even if it wasn't a pandemic, why would I want my time wasted like that? Just tell me I'm fired and email me any info about severance, insurance, etc.
It's also funny that this person finds it surprising given the company and the org within that company they were working. Refi loans are not a stable market.
There is a pretty good movie about a consultant whose is hired by companies to fire people. Including a scene where an employee is fired over a Zoom like thing, but the consultant is actually in the adjacent room (they are testing this system).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_in_the_Air_(2009_film)
Remote fire scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIexe6aa14w
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_in_the_Air_(2009_film)
Remote fire scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIexe6aa14w
> Garg told Fortune that a month earlier, the company began to review employee productivity data, including missed telephone call rates, number of inbound and outbound calls, employees showing up late to meetings with a customer, and other metrics.
I mean, data driven decision making is actually pretty great!
I'm curious how many people here would disagree?
That being said, who here thinks the CEO had a complete picture of the performance metrics? Or perhaps he was operating from an intentionally incomplete data-set to self-fulfill a prophecy, or some other ulterior motive?
I mean, data driven decision making is actually pretty great!
I'm curious how many people here would disagree?
That being said, who here thinks the CEO had a complete picture of the performance metrics? Or perhaps he was operating from an intentionally incomplete data-set to self-fulfill a prophecy, or some other ulterior motive?
The insult at the end was the most telling. It was all from his point of view: “YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.” That’s not building a team, so no wonder people were not motivated to get their jobs done.
Feeling gratitude for not having one of the many many shitty jobs out there.
》organization would provide four weeks of severance and one month of full benefits, as well as other coverage as part of a package.
I find this sort of honest and refreshing. My goverment fired people without any severance or unemployment benefits, with way more BS!
I find this sort of honest and refreshing. My goverment fired people without any severance or unemployment benefits, with way more BS!
“You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS and…DUMB DOLPHINS get caught in nets and eaten by sharks. SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”
That last part, “you are embarrassing me,” suggests an element of narcissism. It personalizes the feedback, something every leader should avoid doing.
Also, all caps suggests shouting, which suggests a lack of emotional control, something leaders sometimes pretend to do strategically, but a good leader never does this accidentally. (I give an example here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/the-hearts-of-men-american-... )
Good feedback is specific and individual. What Gary said, in this example, is almost scientific in how precisely bad it is. He is emotional and non-specific. If a worker has made a good-faith effort and failed, this kind of ranting doesn’t help the worker, and if the worker is operating in bad-faith, then you’ve encouraged them to continue because you are shouting at the room rather than singling them out, a fact which convinces them you don’t know which workers are operating in bad-faith.
That last part, “you are embarrassing me,” suggests an element of narcissism. It personalizes the feedback, something every leader should avoid doing.
Also, all caps suggests shouting, which suggests a lack of emotional control, something leaders sometimes pretend to do strategically, but a good leader never does this accidentally. (I give an example here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/the-hearts-of-men-american-... )
Good feedback is specific and individual. What Gary said, in this example, is almost scientific in how precisely bad it is. He is emotional and non-specific. If a worker has made a good-faith effort and failed, this kind of ranting doesn’t help the worker, and if the worker is operating in bad-faith, then you’ve encouraged them to continue because you are shouting at the room rather than singling them out, a fact which convinces them you don’t know which workers are operating in bad-faith.
"Dumb dolphins"? Hey, dolphins are some of the smarter animals out there... That's an ignorant remark.
This is only somewhat related, but a couple years ago somebody at my company who many people had worked with and liked (he'd been around for a long time) died unexpectedly over a holiday weekend. Our management decided the best way to disseminate this news was to hold an all-hands where they announced he'd been found dead. (OK, they used the term "deceased" so it was slightly more formal)
I probably won't ever forgive them for that. That kind of news is extremely personal and they shouldn't have called us into a room to tell us in front of literally everyone else at the company. I don't need or want my coworkers to see how I react to death -- what if I'd burst into tears? I certainly had felt like doing that.
Honestly even though he was really well-known, the best way to handle it would have been to send an email out (like they did for everyone else who passed) and then have an optional get-together where people could reminisce if they wanted to. Preferably in an informal environment like a bar or restaurant for happy hour.
Curious what other people's experiences have been.
I probably won't ever forgive them for that. That kind of news is extremely personal and they shouldn't have called us into a room to tell us in front of literally everyone else at the company. I don't need or want my coworkers to see how I react to death -- what if I'd burst into tears? I certainly had felt like doing that.
Honestly even though he was really well-known, the best way to handle it would have been to send an email out (like they did for everyone else who passed) and then have an optional get-together where people could reminisce if they wanted to. Preferably in an informal environment like a bar or restaurant for happy hour.
Curious what other people's experiences have been.
> "the market has changed, as you know"
For someone who is out of the loop, what does this mean?
For someone who is out of the loop, what does this mean?
This is a management failure through and through. Whoever is running customer success and support is at least more responsible for that kind of a situation if the accusations about productivity are true.
Its simply not possible for people to hide with that level of systematic underperformance if they have the tools to measure it and the goals are clear and transparent. If you take span of control into account, this means at least 3-4 layers of management werent monitoring performance. At all.
Its simply not possible for people to hide with that level of systematic underperformance if they have the tools to measure it and the goals are clear and transparent. If you take span of control into account, this means at least 3-4 layers of management werent monitoring performance. At all.
"Last time I did it I cried"... yeah sure. Not that it's easy to fire anybody, but having a Zoom meeting with someone that fake is not helping by any means.
I don't really see the problem with this. Yes, it was somewhat cringey but other than that... what was he supposed to do, call them all individually?
So, we have a dumb CEO who couldn’t manage his employees to the extent they were idle most of the time. How is his salary not “stealing from customers”?
Make them all risk their health to come to an in-person event, only to be fired? Drive to every employee's house to fire them in person?
It obviously sucks but I don't see how, in 2021, this is any different from the kind of thing that would happen all the time in mass layoffs.