Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC(raspberrypi.org)
raspberrypi.org
Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-400-the-70-desktop-pc/
754 comments
I was lucky to get a pre-release version to test, and I decided to tear it down before I started trying it out. I posted this blog post with detailed pictures of the insides, and some more details and performance benchmarks: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear...
There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined.
Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.
There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined.
Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.
As an engineer/founder from India who dreams of access to the Internet for everyone on this planet, these are the efforts that make me smile.
I am in the process of sorting out my financial situation - tough founder luck. But I am happy to order a few of these (and monitors) and rent a small garage to give local kids a free computer lab to learn. (Kolkata, India)
I am in the process of sorting out my financial situation - tough founder luck. But I am happy to order a few of these (and monitors) and rent a small garage to give local kids a free computer lab to learn. (Kolkata, India)
Can we please have a Pi without a crappy storage interface. It's either a microSD card or something dangling off USB. An M2 SATA or NVMe would make this credible but 99% of the problems I've had with the Pi platform is storage related, either being knackered microSD cards, terrible performance or USB power problems.
It is quite amazing to see how far we've come since the C64.
[1] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2020-11-02-20-0...
Clock speed: 1827x
Benchmark: 430000x
Memory: 65536x
Power: 0.5x
Screen resolution: 130x
Serial port rate: 1562500x
Introductory price: 6x less
[1] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2020-11-02-20-0...
This tugs all the heartstrings for me as it mimics the computers of the early 80s. My only criticism is that their use of micro-HDMI makes it very easy for children to wreck the machine. I've had this happen twice to me on RPi4s, and it's not a terribly pleasant experience.
Now all I want from them is a custom edition with the function keys in red, the rest in black, and the body in beige.
Now all I want from them is a custom edition with the function keys in red, the rest in black, and the body in beige.
My only wish for v2.0 of this would be an integrated touchpad so I don't have to use a separate mouse. Similar to a Logitech K400 wireless keyboard. I don't know how many times I've been in a situation where it's challenging to find a surface to use a mouse on when I'm working on a Pi project. Workshop, electronics bench, just doing something real quick on my lap, etc.
Like everywhere else, schools here in India also have gone online. But students here do not have computers. They are taking their classes using parents smartphones. Now you can imagine all the issues that one can face while using this setup. Moreover it's not feasible to sit with a mobile phone for 5-6 hrs of classes.
My father is a teacher and I had this idea to let his students use Raspberry PI with TVs but this is perfect for them.
My father is a teacher and I had this idea to let his students use Raspberry PI with TVs but this is perfect for them.
Truly amazing how the Raspberry Pi team keeps innovating.
As far as I know, they're not a billion dollar company yet they keep innovating by making better Pi's and continuously upgrading the builder/user experience.
Congratulations to Upton and team!
As far as I know, they're not a billion dollar company yet they keep innovating by making better Pi's and continuously upgrading the builder/user experience.
Congratulations to Upton and team!
Absolutely wonderful! This is getting ever more close to the joy of the original home computers, and a great setup for a kid to start with especially with the book provided. The RPi4 is also an impressive bit of kit. Bravo RPi foundation!
I was hopping they would just use the compute module[1] and you could replace/upgrade or even use it in another project. In the teardown you can see there is only one board. [2]
I would have also though it would cost less but I guess integrating it directly is even cheaper.
[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-compute-module...
[2] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear...
I would have also though it would cost less but I guess integrating it directly is even cheaper.
[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-compute-module...
[2] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear...
Fantastic. They clearly took into account vast user base not interested in electronics and tinkering and just interested in a cheap PC. SD card with system included which was a hassle for novice users. And they even kept GPIO outside for those like me.
I'm so glad about Raspberry Pi popularity. There are many superior hardware platforms but having one that's really popular massively speeds up prototyping when most modules and sensors have libraries written for it, and you know you are testing them on the same hardware on which they were developed.
I'm so glad about Raspberry Pi popularity. There are many superior hardware platforms but having one that's really popular massively speeds up prototyping when most modules and sensors have libraries written for it, and you know you are testing them on the same hardware on which they were developed.
First impression: yes, this looks beautiful, reminiscent of the microcomputer revolution, and of course I wish I could get one.
What would I change?
It's a pity that the keyboard is connected using a flip-up ribbon, rather than internal USB. Although I can see why the target market (education) just prefers an all-in-one computer, this also means that the RPi 400 can't be used as a keyboard for other computers. Therefore I'll still need to carry a keyboard around.
There will be software options for virtual USB host (e.g. shameless plugs for the EspUSB which uses WiFi, or KeyMouSerial which uses serial) but in practice, those wouldn't be as easy for most hackers. There's also no F12 key, which is needed for system configuration on some distros.
The two Micro-HDMI ports are quite small and close together (especially when using a 3-way micro-mini-full size HDMI adaptor).
Like Apple, there's no headphone jack. Also no built-in SD reader, so I'd still need to carry a USB card reader (unlike my laptop, which can go directly from camera SD cards to HDMI on a projector).
Final nitpick: if this keyboard is intended for young people, their hands are smaller, so full-size keys are actually less comfortable. (believe it or not, I've even seen keyboards intended for children that have extra-large keys). A design with smaller keys that could fit in my large pocket (e.g. TI-84 sized device) would be preferable.
What the RPi Foundation has done is an excellent feat of engineering, and they should and will be rewarded by the market for their innovation. It's a great product. I just still see some room for future improvements.
What would I change?
It's a pity that the keyboard is connected using a flip-up ribbon, rather than internal USB. Although I can see why the target market (education) just prefers an all-in-one computer, this also means that the RPi 400 can't be used as a keyboard for other computers. Therefore I'll still need to carry a keyboard around.
There will be software options for virtual USB host (e.g. shameless plugs for the EspUSB which uses WiFi, or KeyMouSerial which uses serial) but in practice, those wouldn't be as easy for most hackers. There's also no F12 key, which is needed for system configuration on some distros.
The two Micro-HDMI ports are quite small and close together (especially when using a 3-way micro-mini-full size HDMI adaptor).
Like Apple, there's no headphone jack. Also no built-in SD reader, so I'd still need to carry a USB card reader (unlike my laptop, which can go directly from camera SD cards to HDMI on a projector).
Final nitpick: if this keyboard is intended for young people, their hands are smaller, so full-size keys are actually less comfortable. (believe it or not, I've even seen keyboards intended for children that have extra-large keys). A design with smaller keys that could fit in my large pocket (e.g. TI-84 sized device) would be preferable.
What the RPi Foundation has done is an excellent feat of engineering, and they should and will be rewarded by the market for their innovation. It's a great product. I just still see some room for future improvements.
This is an awesome idea, brings me back to my Sinclair days - grab the computer, plug it into the TV, done. Perfect for kids.
Only one concern: I own one of the keyboards (they also have a US layout) and they’re not bad, but the right cursor key fails to register sometimes. So let’s hope they tweaked the build quality a bit in that regard.
Only one concern: I own one of the keyboards (they also have a US layout) and they’re not bad, but the right cursor key fails to register sometimes. So let’s hope they tweaked the build quality a bit in that regard.
They keep adding the minecraft-pi window, which gets me excited. But it is no longer supported or developed: [0], let alone that you could use it to join any multiplayer server.
Context: I run a Java Minecraft server (for my son who plays Java edition from Linux) with GeyserMC (which allows Bedrock clients to connect and play) so my son's friends can join from tablets and Wii's. It would be cool to be able to play from pi's.
[0] https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Pi_Edition
Context: I run a Java Minecraft server (for my son who plays Java edition from Linux) with GeyserMC (which allows Bedrock clients to connect and play) so my son's friends can join from tablets and Wii's. It would be cool to be able to play from pi's.
[0] https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Pi_Edition
Although i grew up in era of home computers like ZX Spectrum, i think that this form factor has no real advantage today, compared to some miniature brick form factor (with external keyboard), like NUC (or brick with Rasberry Pi). I see several reasons:
- External keyboards are super cheap, there is wide variety of designs to choose based on personal preferences, while when integrated in computer you are stuck with one design.
- Keyboards are vulnerable to destruction by toppled cup of tea, so it make sense to not put full computer inside.
- It is easier to manipulate with keyboard when there is only one cable coming from it instead of 5+ cables.
- When moving between places, it is easier to take smaller brick than keyboard-sized computer, while keyboards are interchangable and widespread enough to get one at destination.
- External keyboards are super cheap, there is wide variety of designs to choose based on personal preferences, while when integrated in computer you are stuck with one design.
- Keyboards are vulnerable to destruction by toppled cup of tea, so it make sense to not put full computer inside.
- It is easier to manipulate with keyboard when there is only one cable coming from it instead of 5+ cables.
- When moving between places, it is easier to take smaller brick than keyboard-sized computer, while keyboards are interchangable and widespread enough to get one at destination.
I attended the Stanford Linear Accelerator Homebrew Computer meetup where the two Steves introduced the Apple I computer motherboard 44 years ago. The spirit of homebrew computing has ebbed and waned over the intervening decades. The Raspberry Pi series is a worthy descendent of this tradition.
Does the power port support USB 2.0 data lines? The Pi 4 B does, and one of the things you can do with that is make it emulate a keyboard. If that works with the Pi 400, it could be the ultimate programmable keyboard!
Edit: per https://youtu.be/3A7pQN5W08E it supports USB OTG, so it sounds like the answer is yes!
Edit: per https://youtu.be/3A7pQN5W08E it supports USB OTG, so it sounds like the answer is yes!
Why isn't it just a CM plugged into the bottom of the keyboard circuit board for upgradability... it doesn't bode well that Rasberry Pi's own products aren't using the weird connecter the CM has.
How do I play sounds with this? I see no jack for speakers or headphones. I assume one could have sound over HDMI but monitors with built-in speakers are not very common.
A long time ago I had a Commodore VIC-20 which was a gift from my cousin. The IBM-compatible PCs were firmly entrenched by this time, so the VIC-20 was obsolete but still functioned.
I spent many hours playing with it. Once I discovered the User I/O port, I realized its true power. It wasn't a powerful computer on its own, but the fact that it could easily interface with the real world gave it abilities that the PC clones of the era didn't have.
This Raspberry Pi PC reminds me of that VIC-20. Like the VIC-20, it's got a User I/O port and encourages tinkering. Unlike the VIC-20 I had, this is a modern computer that can be used for everything that we expect a modern computer to do.
I hope this encourages a new generation of tinkerers!
I spent many hours playing with it. Once I discovered the User I/O port, I realized its true power. It wasn't a powerful computer on its own, but the fact that it could easily interface with the real world gave it abilities that the PC clones of the era didn't have.
This Raspberry Pi PC reminds me of that VIC-20. Like the VIC-20, it's got a User I/O port and encourages tinkering. Unlike the VIC-20 I had, this is a modern computer that can be used for everything that we expect a modern computer to do.
I hope this encourages a new generation of tinkerers!
Wow. This would work awesome for distributing Apps that require hardware, for example Point of Sale Systems.
What a clean and stylish execution. I have too many pis already but I think they just sold me another.
That video ad is Steve Jobs-level excellence.
That video ad is Steve Jobs-level excellence.
If there was a way to attach a battery to this, and possibly an external speaker, this would be a pretty cool setup for a notetaker for the blind.
We had talking and braille notetakers (basically our equivalent of PDAs), years before the rest of the world heard about such devices. They've been falling out of fashion lately, mostly because they're so expensive, compared to cheaper but slightly worse alternatives like laptops. If we could make one based on a Pi 400, though, it would probably be way cheaper than anything else on the market, and way more powerful, considering we can put Linux on it.
We had talking and braille notetakers (basically our equivalent of PDAs), years before the rest of the world heard about such devices. They've been falling out of fashion lately, mostly because they're so expensive, compared to cheaper but slightly worse alternatives like laptops. If we could make one based on a Pi 400, though, it would probably be way cheaper than anything else on the market, and way more powerful, considering we can put Linux on it.
Got myself a pre-release version to test with Ubuntu. The higher clock speed at 1.8GHz makes such a nice difference, https://ubuntu.com/blog/raspberry-pi-400-with-ubuntu-support
I haven't followed Raspberry Pi very closely...
Just curious, what kind of software can these run? Does it have a functional web browser? Can it run GMail? Google Docs?
Just curious, what kind of software can these run? Does it have a functional web browser? Can it run GMail? Google Docs?
Unfortunately, in reality it costs at least $115 (at least in all providers in Spain) which changes quite a lot the value proposition.
It reminds me the joyful moments while I plugged my Commodore 64 to TV set.
The comments in this thread appear to focus on form factor. What makes this offering interesting IMO is that this a PC sold without a HDD and without an OS pre-installed. Although the "kit" may supply an SD card with a "recommended" OS, there is no obligation to use it. There are plenty of other options. Users can use multiple OS on the same computer without the inconvenience of "dual-boot".
Although some of the first personal computers, e.g., the ones advertised in the back of Popular Science, did not come with software, that flexibility did not last and bundling/pre-installation became a corporate strategy. User choice of OS is something no "Big Tech" company today will ever allow. Their business relies on being able to make this choice for the user and all the power that control over the OS allows. Imagine buying a computer without a Microsoft, Apple, Google or Amazon OS pre-installed.
Although some of the first personal computers, e.g., the ones advertised in the back of Popular Science, did not come with software, that flexibility did not last and bundling/pre-installation became a corporate strategy. User choice of OS is something no "Big Tech" company today will ever allow. Their business relies on being able to make this choice for the user and all the power that control over the OS allows. Imagine buying a computer without a Microsoft, Apple, Google or Amazon OS pre-installed.
I'm intrigued by the "faster, cooler" comment. Anyone know what that refers to? It looks like there aren't any vents on the visible surfaces, so I'm guessing there's been a hardware rev to make thermal throttling less of a problem?
If so, that might imply a pi 4 board release some time soon, which would be nice.
If so, that might imply a pi 4 board release some time soon, which would be nice.
It reminds me of what Apple does when it redefines a product category by "just" bringing together existing technology into a more convenient form factor and UX.
I don't know if this will quite have that level of impact, but I see the potential, especially now with remote learning: My kids are on a hybrid schedule. I'm fortunate to be able to provide them their necessary computing resources. Not everyone can: The district couldn't secure all of the necessary Chrome Books, and some students have been left attempting remote learning via their parent's phone, or simply left behind. A cheap mass market device has some truly amazing potential to fill in these gaps at the same time that it enables more advanced S(T)EM learning than you could get with a typical cheap Chrome Book.
I'm also old enough to remember when you'd be hard pressed to find a desktop computer for under $1000, perhaps $1500 adjusted for inflation. One for $70-$100 really just hammers home how far we've come.